Oh and one more thing. Your statement that the core doctrines haven't changed in 100 years proves that you have not looked into what those doctrines even were 100, or even 70 years ago. You follow a group that has a 100% failure rate for predictions and speculations. We can guide you to some great resources for older publications if you would like to actually find out for yourself.
Captain Obvious
JoinedPosts by Captain Obvious
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57
Ethos (and all still mentally in): Truth, Tipping Points and Standards
by NeverKnew inif this is "the truth," why has the information provided over the years contained so many errors?
at what point does "error" become "outright lie" for you?
how high (or low) are your standards for your spiritual leaders?
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57
Ethos (and all still mentally in): Truth, Tipping Points and Standards
by NeverKnew inif this is "the truth," why has the information provided over the years contained so many errors?
at what point does "error" become "outright lie" for you?
how high (or low) are your standards for your spiritual leaders?
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Captain Obvious
ETHOS:
I really do appreciate you sharing your viewpoint on the board. I really do.
But you really do need to listen to yourself for a minute. Many of us are here BECAUSE the WT DOES knowingly teach false doctrines that they are too committed to drop ie. 607, the NON divinity of Christ, modelling their theology on ancient Israel instead of Christianity and a host of others.
Next you say that we think we are experts because we have read these cult books... Um. No. We consider ourselves experts because we WERE witnesses, some of us for our whole lives. And yes, it is quite easy to predict what the average JW would do in a certain situation, based on what they are told to do by the WT and how closely they follow those directions.
Your university example is erroneous. Yes, textbooks are updated as new information becomes available. That's a good thing. The difference is that they don't claim to have "absolute truth." You are allowed, even welcome to challenge the current understandings. Current knowledge and "truth" are always up for grabs. That is how humanity progresses. The science books are not written by any self-appointed authority who does not allow anyone else to try to challenge them.
You come here using all these big words trying to sound intellectual and you might be, but so far I have yet to see you make a single clear, logical statement. Don't forget everyone here usually has their BS detectors on high alert, you won't be able to defend yourself and your beliefs with illogical statements or using a red herring.
I look forward to further discussions with you, but please... Step it up a notch or two. Perhaps you should read a book or two on critical thinking as we all have. I'm certain that your university library has a good selection of these.
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2012 service year report
by Captain Obvious ini just received this in typical jw email forward fashion from a family member.
subject: year field service report.
this morning at morning worship, they gave some figures from the 2012 service year.
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Captain Obvious
I just received this in typical JW email forward fashion from a family member.
Subject: Year Field Service Report
This morning at morning worship, they gave some figures from the 2012 Service Year. Please note those that were announced.
Average Publishers – 7,538,994 2% increase
Peak Publishers – 7,782,346
Baptized – 268,777 2.2% increase
Hours – 1,748,697,447 2.4% increase
Regular Pioneers - 921,292 6.2% increase
Bible Studies – 8,759,988 This is 260,000 more than last year.
2012 was another good year in the field.
Seems that they see the increase barely keeping up with the birth rate to be good? I don't get it.
Also it's interesting there's nothing about memorial partakers? Maybe because it was just the service year report.
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Update on Mrs Obvious and myself
by Captain Obvious inwell it's been about 8 months since my final wake up.
as some may remember for my intro thread, i panicked and was way too aggressive at first with telling my wife all about this scam we're a part of.
she freaked, thinking satan had me for sure.
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Captain Obvious
Loz- yes, she is already an my side in many ways, and doesn't seem to feel the need to do everything the GB says to.
In our conversation I was talking about how the bible is very clear that we should trust NO MAN with our faith. Jesus was pretty clear about that. I was talking about how following the commands of men puts them between us and Jesus. I planted that seed a few weeks ago after the public talk that Sunday talked about how Jesus is the mediator for all men. We went over those scriptures, then I showed her how the org teaches that Jesus is the mediator for only the 144000 and the FDS is between us and him. She didn't say much, but I saw the wheels turning and left it alone for a few weeks.
I was also talking about how the early Christians had no buildings, no leaders. They met in small groups in private homes, like a group of friends. Not necessarily even to worship. She agrees, but still feels that we should have a regular place of worship.. Like at the KH. She sees no harm in staying in the org. I talked a bit about how the org hurts people, me personally. After a bit she got defensive of the org so I backed off.
When we're at the meetings, she'll elbow me if I'm making faces at when people say haha. I will occasionally whisper to her why what a person said on the platform or in a comment is wrong, and she will listen. Not agree or disagree, but she will hear it. Sometimes I will ask her to put a cited scripture in context and see if she still thinks it applies to how it is used at the meeting. Sometimes she gets it, sometimes she won't. When you're taught to read things into scripture your whole life it can be a hard thing to shake.
NJY - I will take a look at that page, JWfacts has been a huge help to me.
I really appreciate the advice I've received on this board from all of you. I still have to remind myself to step back and take it slow, yes I am getting a bit impatient. I feel like I have a deadline to meet or something. No matter how long it takes it will be worth it. I just hoping to minimize the fallout with family.
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27
Update on Mrs Obvious and myself
by Captain Obvious inwell it's been about 8 months since my final wake up.
as some may remember for my intro thread, i panicked and was way too aggressive at first with telling my wife all about this scam we're a part of.
she freaked, thinking satan had me for sure.
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Captain Obvious
Well it's been about 8 months since my final wake up. As some may remember for my intro thread, I panicked and was way too aggressive at first with telling my wife all about this scam we're a part of. She freaked, thinking Satan had me for sure. I came on here, got plenty of advice, and have been taking it painfully slow ever since.
My wife and I both work shift work that keeps us from over half of the meetings... I think that helps a lot. I quit going in service early this year. I had to go out one day in June when my dad and in laws were out for a visit.. Most painful hour I've had in forever! Just not ready for that conversation with my dad about it yet. My mom was DF'ed in April, and won't talk to me because she's still mind controlled. I still hope to reach her.
My wife and I haven't talked nearly enough about my changes in belief, though I am constantly planting little seeds, and I am seeing them grow. She seems to be getting a more open-minded world view, very un-JW like. From the start she has made it clear that she loves me no matter what, and doesn't want any of this to damage our relationship... I am very thankful for that! She is truly an amazing woman. I can't wait to get her free of the Borg. I can't wait to see what she is really like without the cult! She even talks about what it will be like when we get old....
I've made an effort to be more loving and caring to her and everyone, and honestly... Our marriage is better than ever. I've also made good on my promise to her to research everything I could with an open mind, and leave no stone unturned. I can often be found in the kitchen with my bible, computer and big green notebook, reading away. It also helps that my morals and attitude haven't become more 'worldly'.
We finally had a good talk the other day, where she said she can tell I'm not lead by Satan like the org says, because my morals haven't changed. I not sure how that line of reasoning works, but I'm not gonna mess it up! She agrees with most of my views, but of course we don't talk much about doctrine. You don't talk doctrine with a cult member. She kept saying 'everyone's spirituality is between them and Jehovah' but doesn't see the harm in associating with JWs as the main form of worship. She obviously doesn't believe they are a destructive group, and still doesn't see how they're controlling. I'll work on that.. Somehow. She also doesn't believe that the FDS has been dishonest in their one-sided quote-mined articles. I wish I had compiled a list of examples. I'll do that this week.
I feel like I'm laying the groundwork, though a bit too slowly. My inactive-ness will bring the hounders around sometime, it can't be much longer. I want my wife at least partially on my side by the time that happens. I think for her the Cog Dis must be getting tough to deal with! She just can't bear the thought of losing friends and family.
I'm completely open for suggestions. Should I just keep it up, but a bit more aggressively? Or just drop a bombshell? I feel like the ideal time is running out before the shit hits the fan with the rest of the family and her cult self kicks back in.
For the many husbands and wives on here who managed to wake each other up... How am I doing? What was it that finally woke you up?
I appreciate all your input and advice, I lurk here everyday, and read most of the threads. I love this board! And look forward to the day when you all get to meet the beautiful Mrs Obvious. I WILL have a success story to share with you one day. Promise.
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Are the desert wastelands of biblical lands due to man or a curse?
by EndofMysteries ini was looking on google earth the other day, take a look at it, the entire world.
notice how all of the countries and lands which were involved in all the biblical events are desert wastelands.
i thought to myself, did they destroy the soil and nothing will grow, well lets see how much rain they get a year.
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Captain Obvious
So the only reasons could be from man or from God? Hmm... Isn't that what we call a false dichotomy?
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=44462.0
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Girls are unpredictable, materialist, and use us, men, as a toy.
by will-be-apostate inwell, it seems like i am going to ruin the domination of raypublishers' topic at this section of the board.
:d. now back to the topic.
the last month i was trying to get "closer" to my classmates and to the others from my highschool.
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Captain Obvious
Dude, relax. Stop falling in love with every other girl you see.
You see school girls are simple creatures. Usually pretty shallow and not worth getting too worked up about. It would, however be a good time to get your confidence up and learn some GAME. You have any game? Doesn't sound like it.
Take care of yourself. Work out, dress nicely, do something you're good at. Above all, do YOUR thing. Live your life for you right now, and if a girl likes you for who and what you are, then maybe she's worth your time.
In the meantime, chat them up now and then. Don't ask them out or try and see if they like you, just be friends. You need to learn how to talk to them. Be friends, but DO NOT GET FRIENDZONED. Friend zone = hell.
Be glad you woke up when you're young.
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About what one thing do you find yourself being a real SNOB?
by Terry inyou know, to fit in....to be a part of our own family or group and not be a total nerd or contrarian.. we hold our tongue.
we smile and nod.. but, then....there is at least one thing we just can't go along with because it is too important.. why?
because we are a total snob.
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Captain Obvious
Steak
I don't even like going to a friends house for steak unless I know he knows how to prepare it. I cringe when I hear "I've been marinating these all day!"
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Are disfellowshipings proportionately increasing or decreasing?
by yadda yadda 2 ini have been re-reading chapter 10 of ray franz's brilliant book "in search of christian freedom" (must reading for every borean-like jw and former jw), and i note that on page 315 it says that in 1995 there were 36,638 disfellowshipped, and 37,426 deepfried in 1996.. are there any statistics that show whether the number of expelled persons is increasing or decreasing proportionate to the number of publishers each year since then?
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Captain Obvious
You could figure it out yourself, it would be quite a bit of work but if you do it please post up your findings!
The Borg doesn't publish their DFing numbers, so you would have to find figures for total baptisms, total pubs, and then factor in the average death rate for those years. Your results wouldn't be conclusive, but the numbers could be interesting. It doesn't feel like more DFings lately, but that could just be where I am.
An increase would be awesome. A mass exodus would be even better!
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When You Were A JW Were You Disturbed By "Apostate" Literature or "Apostates" At Conventions?
by minimus ini was always curious about what they had to say.
(i guess i was an apostate in the making)..
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Captain Obvious
I remember when I was a kid there were always people picketing outside the DA in Vancouver. My dad told me to not even look at them as we walked by. Honestly they just seemed crazy. I don't think they had the effect they meant to.. Or maybe they did?
In the town where I lived a few years ago the was a very old guy who had a big sign on his little old red car that said CHRIST'S WITNESS and a website URL underneath as he drove very slowly around town. One time he was picketing our little local KH with a big cross. As we walked by he said something about the watchtower... Didn't hear exactly.i believe he died a couple years ago.
Does anyone know the town or the old fella I'm talking about? I can't say where, still undercover.